Stainless Steel for a building material

[RexRod]

Tbucit,

Those are some beautiful pieces! I like how you accent colored the brake pedal parts. Very cool.

Brucer,

Thanks for the links. I especially like the short usage descriptions for each grade. The machinist bible is something I have owned since 1978. A super reference for all kinds of stuff. Every time I upgrade to a newer version, I find some kid to give my old one to.

I hadn't thought of using the CNC for making the smaller holes in some parts. I will usually use the CNC for larger holes, or pockets. For the smaller stuff, I just typically use the Criterion boring head. I will have to check the accuracy of my machine for circular interpolating smaller holes. My experience tells me it won't be close enough for fitting close stuff like bearings. Typically, a fresh CNC can only interpolate a hole round to within about 1/2 thou. One to two thou if the machine has a lot of use like mine does.

Take care,

David

[Brucer]

have you set the backlash on your machine lately recheck level, and set the backlash, brings a old machine back into spec and cuts down on bearing failure and ballscrew wear, also stick an indicator on your spindle and apply pressue to see how much your bearings are worn....

a trick you can do is to program the circle or hole in quadrants or sections of a pie.. it will actually bring your hole in very close if you need to...

we have some high speed machines at work, they have backlash set a .0003 and spindles will run 25,000 rpms . we use diamond coated carbide, 1/4 inch ballnose runs around 14,000rpm at 60ipm.. and thats in heat treated h-13

our conventional cnc machines are older Enshu Mills early to mid 90's models, i cut a shot hole yesterday within .0005, and round within .0005... 3.4543 was print dimension with + or - .0005 i went 3.4548 for a lil slip/tap fit but it wont flash it was for a diecast mold for a steering wheel..

[RexRod]

Originally Posted by Brucer

have you set the backlash on your machine lately recheck level, and set the backlash, brings a old machine back into spec and cuts down on bearing failure and ballscrew wear, also stick an indicator on your spindle and apply pressue to see how much your bearings are worn....

I have done all of that already. Ball screw thrust bearings are set at .0005", backlash compensation is set at .002 for Y and .0026 for X, and the spindle is only so, so. I need to adjust my spindle speeds sometimes to get around some of the harmonics to get the finish I want. The machine is more worn for my taste but I only paid $3000 for it, so I'm pretty happy.

a trick you can do is to program the circle or hole in quadrants or sections of a pie.. it will actually bring your hole in very close if you need to...

Wow! I had never thought of that. I learn something new everyday. I am going to play with that and see what kinds of results I can get. My machine makes round holes to within 1 to 2 thou depending on where my table is at. I am presently using one end more than the middle where most of the wear is in the ball screw. I am also very new at this whole CNC thing.

we have some high speed machines at work, they have backlash set a .0003 and spindles will run 25,000 rpms . we use diamond coated carbide, 1/4 inch ballnose runs around 14,000rpm at 60ipm.. and thats in heat treated h-13

our conventional cnc machines are older Enshu Mills early to mid 90's models, i cut a shot hole yesterday within .0005, and round within .0005... 3.4543 was print dimension with + or - .0005 i went 3.4548 for a lil slip/tap fit but it wont flash it was for a diecast mold for a steering wheel..

Well, it sounds like at work you are running some pretty nice gear. It also sounds like you really know your way around CNC's and how to use them. It was only a year or so ago I got my little two axis machine for home use, and it was the first time I have ever used a CNC of any kind. It has the Anilam retrofit kit on it that has that nice conversational programming language for tool paths. I don't know g-code, but I could learn it if I had to.

I have been a precision prototype machinist for almost 30 years and never had the interest to run the automatics. But I must admit, my little CNC does some pretty fun stuff. For simple stuff, I thought my little two axis machine would be a big time saver, but to my surprise it really doesn't save much on single part runs. The only time I see a savings is if I'm making something complex in shape.

I might sound like an old fuddy-duddy, but I wish more people who specialize in the CNC's would spend a little more time with the handle crankers. Guys like me are a dieing breed. There is a whole world you can't learn without getting your face close, your ears listening, your finger tips and your eyes involved. Sometimes you even use your nose! You want to be safe of course.

Thanks for the tips!

David

[Brucer]

i worked as a machinist and prototype machinist for a sub-contractor for major wheel manufacturer for 12 years, and then moved over to the tool and die and mold making trade. was involved in some cool development stuff for the military

i have some good experience in cnc machines i ran a mori-seiki lathe for 3 yrs straight, then i moved over to machining centers/mills and been there ever since that was back in the 80's, ive ran everything from a lathes to boring mills with 8 foot tables, to boston digital twin spindle carbon cutting machines to micron high speed mills.. been to mastercam training for 50 hr class on advanced 3d programming. programmed mastercam for about 6 months for a small shop, and then i moved to a bigger mold shop for some decent money... to bad the tool&die trade is a failing trade now, the foreign markets are killing it here in america..


I can tell you for single parts a cnc, or anilam/prototrak machine wont save you any money, it will actually cost you more for single part runs,because you have to figure in design/programming time,but multi part runs is when you make it.. man it would be sweet to have at home... if you got it for 3k thats a deal i think..

you need software like mastercam, the learning curve on it is steep, but when you learn it, it speeds things up alot... plus you have a nice drawing for visual reference and a program to store back so the next time you dont have down time for design/programming.. there are hacked versions out there, ive seen them..todays $500 laptops will run it easy, especially the 2d..

to touch on the hole cutting or circular interpolation, another trick you can do, is to do a radius leading into the pocket/circle so both axis' are always working and pulling on eachother.. its called spiral pocket cutting or a lead in and lead out radius..it really smoothes the hole out.. dont know if an anilam controller will do that,or has it built in, but pretty sure you can make it to do it. i dont know alot of the anilam controllers, ive always ran yasnac and fanuc controllers have limited use on prototrak.
if you have any questions about that type of stuff feel free to ask.. i could probably generate some programming for you at work, dunno if we have an anilam post installed on our mastercam but its nothing but a click away..



i had to add this.. your not a fuddy duddy at all, some or the smartest men i've met in my life were manual machinists and the old school tool&die makers/mold makers.. the old tool&die/mold makers amaze me, one of the smartest men ive ever met was an engineer that was a machinist for 15 years before he got his degree, the man didnt need a calculator. amazed me, you could pick numbers and have him add multiply or divide or whatever else, he would get it correct standing right there in front of you every time without a calculaor, and his designs were always thought out well and worked well.
in turn, i've also seen a many of those old manual machine guys try to convert to cnc and they couldnt do it, because they couldnt feel it..

[RexRod]

Originally Posted by Brucer

you need software like mastercam, the learning curve on it is steep, but when you learn it, it speeds things up alot...

The guy who sold me the machine has an earlier copy of Mastercam he is going to give to me. It's a legal copy he bought with a serial number and all, he just doesn't use it anymore because he upgrades whenever a new version comes out.

to touch on the hole cutting or circular interpolation, another trick you can do, is to do a radius leading into the pocket/circle so both axis' are always working and pulling on eachother.. its called spiral pocket cutting or a lead in and lead out radius..it really smoothes the hole out.. dont know if an anilam controller will do that,or has it built in, but pretty sure you can make it to do it.

The Anilam controller will do that. I will took at that as a possibility as well. What I need to do is put some spindle bearings in the machine and some new ball screws! That would make a huge difference.

if you have any questions about that type of stuff feel free to ask..

I appreciate that. I am just learning about this stuff!

i had to add this.. your not a fuddy duddy at all, some or the smartest men i've met in my life were manual machinists and the old school tool&die makers/mold makers.. the old tool&die/mold makers amaze me, one of the smartest men ive ever met was an engineer that was a machinist for 15 years before he got his degree, the man didnt need a calculator. amazed me, you could pick numbers and have him add multiply or divide or whatever else, he would get it correct standing right there in front of you every time without a calculaor, and his designs were always thought out well and worked well.
in turn, i've also seen a many of those old manual machine guys try to convert to cnc and they couldnt do it, because they couldnt feel it..

Well thank you sir. And it IS about "Feel" for us handle crankers! Couldn't have described it better myself. We don't look at feeds and speeds tables, we know if things are just right by feel. When your working on something the size of a fly, there's no other way to do it but by feel!

Something that might interest you, back in the late 80's, I got a rare chance to step out of the prototype room for a few months and apprentice with an 81 year old scrapping hand. I spent 6 month's with the guy. We rebuilt several milling machines, one lathe and a surface grinder. One of the milling machines we rebuilt is one I own today (it's a manual machine I also have here at home). Now that's a skill no one does anymore. Our "throw away society" makes sure of that.

Thanks again Brucer! It's been nice getting to know you!

Take care,

David

[RexRod]

Did some very rough comparisons between the extra cost of SS versus chrome.

I don't have very good sources for materials, so I just looked on line at going rates to make my comparison.

Example:
Approx $90 dollars for materials in a front axle made from DOM.
Approx $185 dollars for stainless to make the same axle.

Difference between using DOM and SS is approx $95 dollars.

Approx $195 dollars to chrome said DOM axle using Speedways prices.

So the chrome is around double the cost of what you would pay extra to make the same part out of SS. It's getting easier to see why people are using it.

Stainless is looking good!

David

[Tbucit]

And if you called aplace like Advance Plating in Nashville it would be about $300 for the axle.

Randall

[TheAntiBoyd]

I worked in a chrome shop for a few years; and they are switching over from the old hand plating guys (in their 50s and 60s) to the computer controlled plating (mostly on plastics by guys in their 20s). Even though I wasnt a plater, I learned a LOT. Part of the reason replating our "vintage" parts is SO expensive is the condition of the part to begin with. A good shop with buffing/polishing facilities will plate a copper strike and buff, plate copper and buff until it is smooth enough to put the nickel and chrome on the part. If you bring them a ratty old part and they take 2 weeks in the cleaners and copper, plus buffing...you can see where this goes. If you bring them a good part, where the holes are finish ground so they dont have to clean it for days and only need 1 or 2 trips through the acid copper bath...you'll save yourself a lot. The other reason chrome is so expensive is the waste treatment facilities they are required to use are insanely expensive. No one will treat cyanide anymore, and a lot of places are scaling back on the chrome salts you use on metals; so when they use copper cyanide and chrome salts...its gonna cost you.
Alot of times you can work with the chrome shop. if you dont really have a deadline so they can efficiently load their racks and save money; AND you bring them a clean finished part to their needs....its a LOT cheaper.

My great grandad was a tool/diemaker and a lot of his tools are german from the civil war era. they are some of my most prized possessions; and no one in my family but my dad (who was an industrial arts teacher) and grandpa (who was a welding instructor for 35yrs) couldnt understand why I didnt throw them out. You manual machinists never cease to amaze me

[Youngster]

It really dosen't cost that much to set up a polishing center at home. You can buy a buffing motor from Harbor Freight for around $70 or go to Sears and get one for about $150. Eastwood has a ready supply of rouges and wheels. you might have $250 tied up in a motor and supplies but you will save many times that by the time you plate the parts for your T.

Ron

[RexRod]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Here is a big time saver I learned a long time ago if you are going to polish out some kind of complicated assembly:

Polish every part of the assembly before welding while it's still small and easy to polish. Be care full when you do weld. Then the little damage done when welding is easy to finish/polish out when everything is stuck together.

It doesn't always work out that way, but mostly it does.

Just my two cents.

David